Another Baby Step towards Less Shoe

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When it comes to shoe selection, I find myself facing several conflicting objectives.  First, I want to continue to be a more efficient runner.  Given that this drives me towards a lower heel and lighter shoe, I am constantly looking at shoe specifications when plotting the next move – specifically weight and heel-to-toe drop.  Secondly, I like to stick with what works; I have to date enjoyed an injury-free running career, and no amount of small gain in running performance is worth risking an increasing incidence of injuries (as obviously all the performance benefits, and then some, would be lost).  Finally, I try to be economical in shoe selection – while I don’t look at the price of any individual shoe that closely (though I have to say I would rule out Newtons based on their price), I can’t afford to have more than two pairs in rotation and I try to get 400+ miles out of each pair.  I even try to keep a third 400+ mile pair on the bench for muddy or snowy days, especially now that the Cleveland winter is approaching (I haven’t gotten rid of my Nike Max Moto’s from spring yet, despite their 450 miles).

I had discussed previously on Runblogger my angst over taking a first step towards wearing less shoe, describing my experience in shifting from the Nike’s to the Mizuno Wave Rider 13 (for which I have written a shoe review as well).  I have been happy with the Wave Riders, they performed well for me at the Akron Marathon, and were a step lighter than the Nike’s; I was able to adjust to their greater feel for the road pretty quickly and I’m sure they made at least a small contribution to my PR effort there.  However, in preparing for the Cleveland Fall Classic Half Marathon in November, I wanted to take the opportunity to go a step further, and my original Wave Riders reaching the 400-mile milestone has provided the excuse (from my wife’s view) or opportunity (from my view) to do so.  So I set out with the goal of coming home with some Saucony Kinvaras, having read so many positive reviews on Dailymile and elsewhere.

So many choices, so little funds - the wall of Second Sole Lyndhurst

I headed to the Second Sole store in Lyndhurst, OH, not too far from where I work.  I haven’t been there in years, but used to get most of my shoes there in my previous running life in the early part of the ‘naughts (or the ‘00’s, for those more numerically inclined).  When I told the clerk there that I was interested in moving from the Wave Riders to Kinvaras to get lighter, she replied, “Well, you would certainly be doing that”.  I knew it was likely I’d have to go to a larger size in the Kinvaras – even my size 12 Wave Riders were damaging my toenails quite a bit, and Saucony’s reportedly run a bit small.  Unfortunately, all they had in stock was a size 12.  I tried it on, expecting it might still be OK, and was horrified at how they felt – not only in the toe, but across the instep.  I have a fat foot, and I couldn’t conceive of running in such a snug shoe.  She offered to have some 13’s sent in from another of their stores to try out, and I agreed, but then she went to find their running guru to see if other options might be viable for me.

This gentleman (Clark Turner) clearly knew what he was talking about – and he just had the look of an experienced runner.  Turns out he is a coach as well, which seems an ideal qualification for working in a shoe store.  And he seemed more than eager to share his time and knowledge in helping me look through a variety of  options.  He understood fully my mission to go to less shoe, and stated that he himself ran all his marathons in racing flats.  He actually MEASURED MY FOOT and discovered that, lo and behold, I am actually a size 12.5 – meaning I should really do a 13 in running shoes.  Suddenly, I could almost see my black toenails fade away before my eyes.  Every shoe I tried on in a 13 felt much better than what I currently wore – though several were clearly still going to create some issues across the instep or on a specific toe.  Let me walk through a list of the shoes I tried, and my impressions:

  • Nike Lunarfly – I have had a lot of success with Nike’s in the past (back in the day of the Air Span Triax, specifically), so was open to trying this garish looking shoe.  It has a racing-flat like appearance but with more cushioning, and a relatively flat heel-to-toe drop.  The fit was very comfortable (almost too sloppy), but I liked it – they felt fast and natural on my test run – and it quickly became the basis for comparison for all other shoes.  Clark stated that he used these for most of his tempo and long runs in training.
  • Mizuno Wave Precision 11 – When I saw the box, I immediately thought – great! Wave Ronins were my second preference to the Kinvara’s anyway. I was a little disappointed when he pulled out the Wave Precisions (though I admit I loved the bright blue and gold colors).  I couldn’t believe how great these felt when I put them on, and the test run felt better than I could have imagined.
  • Asics DS-Trainer – I was skeptical about these – I had tried them before and opted for the Mizuno Wave Riders, so I felt I would be taking a step sideways on these, not forward.  They were too snug across the instep anyway – I could have tried a 2E width, but I my skepticism kept me from even asking if they had any on hand.
  • Nike LunarElite – These were a bit stiffer and slightly heavier than the Lunarfly.  But the major issue for me was that the toebox hit my 4th toenail on my right foot funny (one of my many black and blue ones); Clark commented that the fit on the LunarElite’s is a bit more snug.  This ruled the shoe out as an option (I barely made it the 150’ of my test run in these).
  • Mizuno Wave Elixir – After noting that my ankle turns a bit inward when I run (though I never really thought of myself as an overpronator, and most others who observe me say that I’m not), he brought out a stability model from Mizuno.  Surprisingly, these shoes weigh the same as the Wave Precisions, but have the support post.  I didn’t like the feel of the extra support (having gotten used to going without it), so ruled these out as well.  Running guru commented that many runners prefer the softer and more “variable” (to paraphrase) support of Nike’s LunarLite lining, which is there if you need it but doesn’t “force” the foot to move where it doesn’t want to.

To the victors go my feet - the Mizuno Wave Precision

So, after trying all these, I had narrowed it down to the Wave Precision and the Lunarfly.  I put the Wave Precision on the left foot, and the Lunarfly on the right, and took off for the last test run.  I liked them both, yet they were distinctly different.  The Wave Precision felt like a Mizuno – not much under the foot, you could really feel the road.  The Lunarfly felt cushier, hitting the foot in different places than I was used to.  I didn’t think that was bad, but maybe the familiarity of the Waves gave me a slight bias.  What sealed the deal was sitting and looking at the shoes, and recognizing that the upper on the Lunarfly bunched when I tied them tight, near the base of the shoelaces.  Clark stated that they were a newer shoe and Nike didn’t quite get the fit of the upper to the sole correct, and this would be updated early next year.  I settled on the Wave Precisions.  But I may step to the Lunarfly next, once they get the upper fit correct.

As Clark started boxing up the shoes, we talked marathons; he was amazed at the 3:03 at Akron and stated he had never run the race as he was afraid of the back end of the course.  But it turned out we both ran Boston 2004, in the 85 degree heat, and had our worst races ever, both hitting a wall around 15K in.  He commented that he had never been so sore after a marathon, largely because he ran a lot slower than even his training runs – and I then recalled that I was unusually sore too.  Anyhow, while I do like to buy repeat shoes online (specifically at Road Runner Sports), it’s nice to have a local store to experiment with new selections, and Second Sole will definitely be the choice for that (especially since it is only 5 minutes from work).

He also commented that I had probably noticed a lot less heel wear in the Wave Riders than the Nike Max Moto’s, and I affirmed that such was absolutely the case.  He opined that this may have contributed some to my PR at Akron, as I was probably running more efficiently with less heel strike.  Maybe he was puffing sunshine where it’s not supposed to shine, but since his theory jives with my own, I’ll just take it and run.

I’m looking forward to trying out the Wave Precisions, and after I get enough miles on them (probably sometime in December, after the half-marathon), I’ll provide a fuller review, which actually seems to be lacking for these shoes right now (addendum – my review of the Mizuno Wave Precision 11 is posted).  I’m not sure I’ll ever move all the way to minimalist (shoes I mean – not barefoot) – I even have fat toes which don’t seem suited for Vibram’s, but I’m eager to see how much further I can push this.  One step at a time.

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  • Tim Meier

    Very cool. My uncle in-law and incidentally my high school xc and track coach, George Hallis, works at the Second Sole store in the Valley. I have had many similar experiences to the one you’ve described. I hope you enjoy the Precisions!

  • http://gregstrosaker.com Greg Strosaker

    Thanks Tim, Second Sole is a good chain, in a dream world I’d own a running shoe store. It would be lots of fun to help others find the right choice for them, discuss options, etc.

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  • http://www.runblogger.com/ Pete Larson

    Greg,

    If you like Mizunos, definitely keep the Wave Ronin (neutral) and/or Wave Musha (stability) in mind down the road. They are a bit less in the heel (about 9mm drop), and the Ronins have among the roomiest of toeboxes that I have ever tried. The Ronin heel is a bit more than I like, but it’s a nice shoe for someone moving downward.

    Pete

  • http://gregstrosaker.com Greg Strosaker

    Thanks Pete, always great to hear from you on your experiences with such a vast array of shoes, especially those along the flight path on where I’m hopefully headed. Hope you are recovering well from Smuttynose.

  • http://www.strengthrunning.com Fitz

    Have you tried the Saucony Grid Fastwitch 4′s? I am on my 2nd pair and love them. They are really light (I believe 7oz.) and the upper fits like a glove. If you like Saucony and are looking for a neutral shoe, you might like the Fastwitch’s.

    - Fitz.

  • http://gregstrosaker.com Greg Strosaker

    Hi Fitz, the Kinvara’s are the only Saucony’s I’ve ever even tried on. I usually go in with a specific shoe in mind and wander only tightly from that (partly because of the fourth conflicting constraint I forgot to mention – always pressed for time), so my repertoire of what I’ve tried is pretty limited. I will definitely keep the Fastwitch’s in mind.

  • http://runningrecon.blogspot.com Drew

    It sounds like however much more you paid in the store versus online was money well spent, given the helpfulness and knowledge of the staff. I’m not sure you could get information like that about the Lunarflys even from Nike. :)

    When I first put on the Kinvaras I fell in love and ran exclusively in them for a several weeks. Eventually I re-introduced my Adidas adiZero Manas and came to realize just how soft and snug the Kinvaras were. I alternate quite a bit now and have found each is suited for different tasks. Lesson learned.

    - Drew

  • http://gregstrosaker.com Greg Strosaker

    I’m a big believer in several things about shoes – first is that there is no “one perfect shoe” for any runner, and every runner is different. I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to feel comfortable in Kinvaras, as much as I want to, as perhaps my feet are too fat. To me, shoes are as much mental as physical – if I believe the shoes are right, then that goes a long way towards making them so. And shopping in a shoe store is just fun as well – I don’t talk to enough runners (in person, that is), so it’s great to be able to shoot the breeze with one once in a while.

  • Giedt

    As mentioned earlier, I am doing the same thing as you. Running in Wave Riders and wanting less shoe. I had ordered the Mizuno Wave Precision and Saucony Kinvaras to try on. I went Kinvaras due to the noticably flatter heel. I took them out of the box, ran 20 miles and loved them. I know I would have been happy with the Precision too. They fit great and were very familiar to my feet coming from the Riders.

    WRT sizing on the Kinvaras, I am a 10.5 and wear a 11.5 in Mizuno. My Kinvaras are 12s, so I am 1.5 sizes larger than I measure. You might still consider trying on the Kinvara in a larger size someday. You certainly can’t go wrong with those Precisions though. I bet they will wear much better than the Kinvara, due to the more substantial out sole.

    Great read Greg! Enjoy my friend.- @Giedt

  • http://gregstrosaker.com Greg Strosaker

    Thanks Jeff, I really wanted the Kinvaras to work and will certainly give them another try in the right size, but I am confident that the Precisions will work well too, even if they are only a small step from the Wave Riders.